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Post by tiff on Mar 14, 2016 21:35:27 GMT
This sounds like a good step in the right direction. Are you looking at static IPSC's on 4" wooden posts with wooded base plates or IPSC swinging gongs?
If the latter what are you planning to suspend them on? I brought a scaffold frame two shoots ago, it worked well as a free standing frame (as no digging is permitted for obvious reasons...), but is bulky to transport and would probably get stolen by the plain thieves if left...
I can provide AR400 10mm IPSC' gongs for around £120 each if it helps - 500 really isn't required for anything sub .375 past 600 yards. Statics are more expensive as it requires welding etc. AR500 is also possible for a few, just need to have 4+ as I'd have to order another sheet.
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Post by Admin on Mar 14, 2016 22:33:21 GMT
I'd be pretty surprised if even the pikey scum who frequent the plain would go that deep into the impact area for a few bits of scaff tube tiff.
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Post by davet on Mar 15, 2016 10:06:31 GMT
Tiff your guidance on AR500 or less robust steel much appreciated.
I could see no point in shooting an IPSC at less than 1000 so if AR400 good for up to 338 LM at that range or greater then we can make a considerable cost saving.
No idea about best mounting method and costs as I am at the stage of seeing just who will ante-up .....what do we need to allow for mounts?
It would be great if you can supply after we agree who will chip in.
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Post by davet on Mar 15, 2016 20:42:14 GMT
Let's get down to brass tacks.......Rich and myself are up for buying the steels so who else that attends the Salisbury shoots is in for between £60 and £100?
The shine is going to go off very quickly if all we have beyond 1000 yards is rusty tank hulks.
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Post by sako75varminter on Mar 15, 2016 22:10:17 GMT
Yep I'm in Dave!
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Post by davet on Mar 15, 2016 22:11:41 GMT
Good man...who else is likely to join us?
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Post by Admin on Mar 16, 2016 18:48:04 GMT
Good man...who else is likely to join us? I guess i could chip in...
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Post by davet on Mar 16, 2016 20:25:01 GMT
Well so far we are 4......Pete , Rich, Glenn and me.
Pete Searle is buying an AR400 IPSC off of Tiff as he wants to use it at Lydd etc...fair go.
It's a reasonable option for us to do likewise but it would mean £120 each instead of the 60 or 100 that a group buy could achieve.
Pros would be that we would still have multiple targets, the option to use them elsewhere and Rich would not have to store and transport the whole set plus stands.....Cons are that it's up to twice the investment.
So far we are too small a group for an economical group buy.
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Post by davet on Mar 17, 2016 16:11:43 GMT
This sounds like a good step in the right direction. Are you looking at static IPSC's on 4" wooden posts with wooded base plates or IPSC swinging gongs? If the latter what are you planning to suspend them on? I brought a scaffold frame two shoots ago, it worked well as a free standing frame (as no digging is permitted for obvious reasons...), but is bulky to transport and would probably get stolen by the plain thieves if left... I can provide AR400 10mm IPSC' gongs for around £120 each if it helps - 500 really isn't required for anything sub .375 past 600 yards. Statics are more expensive as it requires welding etc. AR500 is also possible for a few, just need to have 4+ as I'd have to order another sheet. Tiff I am hanging on to see if we get any more takers for a group buy. In the event that we do not then I would like to take 2 anyway. I think the swinging variant would be best so that movement can be seen at a distance......presume they come drilled with mounting holes? Can you provide conveyor belt sections for mounting rather than chains? How much extra would AR500 be over the AR400 price? Any thoughts on delivery lead time and how to get hands on them short of driving to Bodmin? Cheers Dave
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Post by davet on Mar 17, 2016 18:28:43 GMT
Just seen a neat way to mount steels on wooden posts without needing tools......www.moatargets.com ....uses a universal bracket which needs a tab cut on the steel but then it simply slots into the bracket and leans slightly forward.....simple. ..no chains or conveyor belt.
Wonder if Tiffs AR400/500 supplier can do this?
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Post by tiff on Mar 17, 2016 22:05:16 GMT
Hi Dave, I'm away most of this week working, but will run the numbers on the AR500 tomorrow when I get a chance. Would probably be circa £150-160 per IPSC in AR500, vs circa £120 in AR400. Below is a picture of the one I took to Salisbury two shoots ago. The target all fitted up with belt would be circa £140 (frame is about £30 extra if sourced locally). It would come with one or pairs of mounting holes are requested. These are cold drilled in AR400 or rapid plasma cut in AR 500 (cannot find a way to economically drill AR500 even on the 100 tonne press!) With this wider double bolted conveyor belt, there is quite a lot of friction to overcome to make the target move...However I will be testing it with silicon spray on the belt/top bar and I think this should solve the problem. Otherwise thinner belt loops, or mild tensile wire or chains will be the answer (I've used the former two variants for many years) The frame takes 1 reasonably strong person under 3 minute to set-up, or less than half this with two people. I'm still working on the best frame that is quick to deploy, self supporting (doesn't need digging in) and will take a few hits without failing - the biggest problem is supporting the ISPC weight, without the frame weighing or costing that much... Moving/hanging in far better at distance than static, as it offers that bit more feedback, especially with the bigger calibers. I make nearly all my own targets, so will happily cut whatever you require, although if you mean this type, the cost will have to go up as more steel will be used and potentially more waste created. www.moatargets.com/your-first-steel-targets/ar500-steel-ipsc-33-percent-with-universal-mountAlso I'm not convinced by this design, as I can see a few direct hits on the wooden post (even more so with ricochets) causing a few issues. Also the lack of movement would be my concern, especially if visibility is slightly impaired with smoke or rain, drizzle etc. I'm up on the moors most of the time at the moment, so only really get online in the evenings, but please keep the questions coming and I'll do my best to help. Tiff
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Post by davet on Mar 17, 2016 22:26:56 GMT
Tiff
Happy to defer to your by now considerable experience re target setup.
I personally would be happy to pay a bit extra for the AR500.
Comments from other interested parties would be useful.
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Post by c18rch on Mar 18, 2016 11:13:33 GMT
Yeah, having seen the results on ar400 at the quarry's I'd be happy to pay more for the ar500. They will last better, but happy to go with the majority decision.
Rich
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Post by oaken on Mar 18, 2016 13:49:22 GMT
I'm afraid I am not in a position to contribute right now, other than the use of the mqc gongs. however, I have been watching this thread with interest. Not having managed to get to one of these shoots, I don't know how they work or indeed the integrity of the other shooters. I would suggest that everyone there will (want to) shoot any additional Targetry that gets put on the range which is a little unfair on the owners of the new steels. Maybe a contribution to a gong fund from anyone wishing to shoot these gongs would be a way forward and enable inevitable replacement of consumables and maybe even new steels. If a set of steels were made available on a regular basis, a small increase in the range fee would be the most fair way to implement. Obviously requiring the good will of FCSA.
On the matter of 400/500 grade steel, as Tiff says, if they are shot beyond 1000yds 400 will take the hits especially if free hanging. The quarry steels got a real hammering because they were being hit from as little as 30yds. They managed this reasonably well (several thousand hits) until the last shoot where someone was using a round that found its way through some of them. I suspect the new scenars! It's speed that the steels don't like and at 1000+ not much is going to be going that fast.
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Post by davet on Mar 18, 2016 14:00:34 GMT
Words have been had at range briefing about not shooting private steels which should be painted red.
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